Eva Sheie (00:03):
The purpose of this podcast is simple. We want you to get to know your doctor before meeting them in person because you're making a life-changing decision, and time is scarce. The more you can learn about who your doctor is before you meet them, the better that first meeting will be. There's no substitute for an in-person appointment, but we hope this comes close. I'm your host, Eva Sheie, and you're listening to Meet the Doctor. Welcome back to Meet the Doctor. My name's Eva Sheie. My guest today is Austin Hayes is a plastic surgeon in Portland, Oregon. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Hayes.

Dr. Hayes (00:42):
Thanks for having me, Eva. I've been looking forward to it.

Eva Sheie (00:45):
Now, it's Tuesday morning and you're at home for a very strange reason. Do you want to tell us why?

Dr. Hayes (00:51):
Oh my gosh, you're putting me on the spot. Yeah, so one of my hobbies is I love to cook and on Saturday I was unfortunately using the mandolin to cut tiny little pieces of garlic and got into the tip of my thumb. So it's not a bad injury, but I'm going to have to cancel two days of or so normally I'd be operating today, so my Tuesday schedule and my Thursday schedule were canceled.

Eva Sheie (01:19):
Did anybody in your office give you a hard time?

Dr. Hayes (01:23):
I took Monday off, so I haven't actually been back to the office.

Eva Sheie (01:26):
Oh, so they don't know.

Dr. Hayes (01:28):
Yeah, the MAs and the Med Spa staff are going to have a field day with me. Yeah, it's not going to be good.

Eva Sheie (01:34):
Have you ever cut your hand or your fingers before?

Dr. Hayes (01:37):
No, I've been really lucky. One of the things I did after I left the University of Washington, well, first of all, I was a plastic surgery resident at the University of Washington, and that program has so much trauma, so the medical center there just is the level one trauma center for five states, and I saw so much trauma that I really had a respect for saws and knives and all of the injuries that can happen after that. I did a hand fellowship, and so no, I haven't because I'm generally pretty careful, but I guess this was just one of those things.

Eva Sheie (02:17):
You did a hand fellowship.

Dr. Hayes (02:20):
So after I left Seattle, I went to Baltimore and did a fellowship as a one year, well, it can be longer, but it's typically one year after a plastic surgery residency, and so I specialized in hand surgery, trauma and other ailments of the upper extremity and spent a year in Baltimore doing that.

Eva Sheie (02:41):
Okay. So you've been in Baltimore, you've been in Seattle. Will you just take us backwards through, where are you now in going reverse order?

Dr. Hayes (02:49):
Yeah, so I'm board certified plastic surgeon. I practice breast and body cosmetic surgery in Portland, Oregon. Before that, so now I'm stepping back my training. I did kind of an aesthetic mini fellowship with some plastic surgeons in Seattle and a plastic surgeon in Philadelphia before that was my hand fellowship in Baltimore, and then prior to that was Seattle, Washington for six years for plastic surgery residency at the University of Washington. And then before that was medical school, Columbia University in New York City, and then before that was college in Oregon. So every time I moved, I went all the way across the country. So it's been a long road, but now settled in Portland, Oregon.

Eva Sheie (03:36):
And not leaving.

Dr. Hayes (03:37):
And not leaving, correct, correct. My wife's from Seattle, so our families are rooted in the northwest, so we're here for the long run.

Eva Sheie (03:47):
What do you like about being in Portland?

Dr. Hayes (03:50):
Yeah, Portland allows me to have a really rewarding work career and then also have balance in my life with my family and other activities I like. So things we like to do are work out, fish, I fly fish, ski in the winter, we're close to the ocean. Central Oregon's a really beautiful part of our state, so I just try and take advantage of work and the outdoors and Portland is just that blend for me, plus it's what I'm used to. I grew up here, so I get to be around my friends and family.

Eva Sheie (04:26):
When you think back on the places that you've been in this varied and storied career that you've had so far, did you ever find that you had to do things that you didn't, not necessarily hate, but didn't love in order to really figure out what you did love?

Dr. Hayes (04:44):
Oh, a hundred percent. That's a great question. In the broadest sense, medical education is really rigorous. Medical school is rigorous in the amount of studying that you do and the amount of knowledge that you're trying to acquire. And then residency kind of doubles up on that with the work hours. I'm part of what I would call kind of a new generation where we had limits on how much we could work. We couldn't work more than 80 hours in a week, and it was something like we couldn't work, we couldn't be up for more than 30 hours straight, but that was incredibly rigorous, and so what that did is just made me appreciate just the simplest things in life. So it was an absolute blessing for me too. If I wake up and it's a Tuesday morning and it's beautiful outside and I have a cup of coffee and sit on my back porch, I mean, that alone is something that I'm thankful for and that I enjoy.

(05:42)
So the answer is definitely yes. In medical school, I was really lucky. Columbia really exposed us broadly to all of the specialties, and so we would spend a lot of time seeing all of the different specialties. So yeah, you became really adept at figuring out quickly what you liked and didn't like, and then where your draw was. And probably the earliest draw for me was, okay, it's either surgery or medicine. And so the quick delineation was, okay, I am a surgeon, that's what calls me. And then you start going through the surgical specialties and figuring out which ones you have an affinity for.

Eva Sheie (06:27):
Did you ever think you were going to be something other than a plastic surgeon?

Dr. Hayes (06:31):
Oh yeah. I thought I was going to be everything else other than a plastic surgeon. Gosh. So in college I thought I was going to be a neurosurgeon. When I got to Columbia, I thought I was going to be a neurosurgeon, orthopedic surgery, cardiac surgery, pediatric cardiac surgery. I looked at E N T a little bit, although not super seriously. But yeah, there were lots of things I thought I was going to be before I stumbled on plastic surgery.

Eva Sheie (07:00):
And then even before that, was there a moment, do you remember when you knew you were going to be a doctor?

Dr. Hayes (07:06):
Yeah, I mean, that was really early for me. I don't know. I don't know how I knew that I was going to be a doctor, but I would say all the way back to probably middle school, early middle school to late middle school, I was sure that I was going to be a doctor, but I think that the reasons that I thought I was going to be a doctor at the time were not. I didn't have a deep understanding of what that really meant. And so I think it was more the early thing I thought I was going to do, and then by happenstance it happened to be where my natural interests lie that I ended up actually going down that road.

Eva Sheie (07:41):
Do you remember what the influences were? Were they people or was it television? Was there something

Dr. Hayes (07:47):
The early influences? Yeah, or Yeah, it probably was television. I mean, when I was growing up, gosh, I'm born in 1980, and so I don't know, maybe it was a Doogie Howser phenomenon.

Eva Sheie (07:59):
I wasn't going to bring it up, but that's what I was thinking.

Dr. Hayes (08:01):
You know, that would not surprise me at all. Could have been. That probably may have been it. Yeah.

Eva Sheie (08:09):
Doogie Howser in a way, I think because he was so young, he kind of made us all in that generation think, oh, I could be a doctor if that kid can be a doctor.

Dr. Hayes (08:18):
I think that's true. Yeah, that was a fun show. I haven't thought about that show in, man, probably 30 years.

Eva Sheie (08:26):
We should have a watch party or something.

Dr. Hayes (08:27):
We should.

Eva Sheie (08:28):
It'd probably be hilarious. Doogie.

Dr. Hayes (08:33):
Oh, Doogie.

Eva Sheie (08:35):
So once you landed in Portland, you didn't quite land where you are now, and then Covid happened in the middle of all of this?

Dr. Hayes (08:46):
Yeah, so I landed after my, again, kind of my aesthetic mini fellowship where I spent several months in Seattle and Philly. I landed back with basically my first boss and my first boss as a plastic surgeon. He had a mixed practice of hand surgery, reconstructive surgery, and did aesthetic surgery. And when I joined him, I was a hand surgeon and going to be a cosmetic surgeon after a couple of years as I grew my cosmetic practice and kind of frankly learned more about myself and realized that hand surgery is incredible, it's just not where my interests lie, and it's kind of not what I was necessarily built for. Then I went all in on cosmetic surgery. And so probably for the last five or six years, I only have again, a breast, and I should say a breast body and labia because I do labiaplasty, but I only do about four operations. And so I'm kind of ultra specialized in breast and body cosmetic surgery.

Eva Sheie (09:58):
I think in the last few years there's been quite a lot of innovation in breast surgery again. Is that accurate?

Dr. Hayes (10:04):
Yeah, very accurate.

Eva Sheie (10:07):
What kinds of things are you excited about in that space right now?

Dr. Hayes (10:12):
I know this is something a lot about mesh. There are lots of innovations. The main technological innovation is the latest generation of silicone implants, but those have been out for a while. I would say the new innovation for me is using soft tissue support and using mesh. There's two types that I use. One is called GalaFLEX and one is called Durasorb, and both are essentially a resorbable material. So you put them in the short term, they can support your implant, but in the long term, what they do is as the body absorbs them, it leaves behind a strong layer of tissue and so that tissue serves to permanently support the implant. And so particularly when somebody, these tissues have been stretched. So for me, that's when I'm doing a breast augmentation combined with a breast lift because most patients who require lifting have had breasts that are large enough to sag, whether that's through time or through having children or weight loss.

(11:13)
And so really being able to use mesh to have the mesh hold the implant and then let the breast and the skin do its job, which is just to cover over the top of the implant, we want to alleviate the skin from trying to lift the breasts as much as we can. And so mesh has really been a significant innovation for me. I would say that my augmentation, mastopexy results are, I'm really happy with them. And then the other innovation for me is more of a technical innovation. I told you I've been listening to a lot of these podcasts lately, and I was listening to Dr. Reich, and it's fascinating to listen to someone who is so ultra specialized. I mean, one to specialize in only nose is amazing, but to operate five days a week and do noses five days a week, I mean, it's incredible.

(12:03)
So one of the things that's cool about having a very narrow spectrum is that the little tiny things that you work on and the little tiny improvements you make, one, you can implement them immediately because you're doing that case that week. And two, you really get to focus in on the tiny, tiny little innovation. So one of the innovations that I came up with recently was a new way of supporting the crease. The crease below the breast is really the foundation for everything. It's kind of an anchor point that supports the breast tissue or the breast and the implant. It also serves as an anchor point to really tether down the skin so that the skin envelope around the breast is really tight. And so a breast that has these features looks more braless, it's more perky, it looks a little bit lighter, a little bit more youthful. And so I kind of had struggled with this for, or it's been thinking about this for several years and came up with a way to create a double layer support system for the crease. That technique for me is only about five months old, probably done about 20 patients, but it's really transformative in the way that my breasts are looking, particularly for lift reduction and lift with implants.

Eva Sheie (13:22):
And what are those patients saying to you now that they're a few months out?

Dr. Hayes (13:27):
One of the interesting things that people come and say about reduction or lift is that they can't find photos. And of course there are photos out there, but I think when you look at the plethora of images for breast augmentation, tummy tuck and other, just kind of the abundance of photos, many of those patients struggle to find them. And I think that's because many times the results are kind of not exactly what we're hoping for. We're hoping for the most lifted, the most braless look that we can accomplish, and the soft tissues and the crease support end up kind of undermining that goal. And so they're really happy to see that they actually do look braless, that they do, again, have that very perky appearance, that their breasts don't touch their abdomen, that they see more of their torso. So these are things I talk about during a consult, and it's really rewarding to have them come back and actually notice those things. And the other cool thing is that on social media, I talk about these in my posts, and now people come in and ask about the technique, and when they're looking at before and after results, they start looking for the very specific features that I talk about. And so that's really, really neat.

Eva Sheie (14:47):
That is nice to know people are paying attention.

Dr. Hayes (14:49):
They do. And word spreads quicker than you think, which is really cool.

Eva Sheie (14:55):
Are you hearing from patients who don't want implants that they also still want to lift and they want support, but they don't actually want breast implants? Is that happening?

Dr. Hayes (15:04):
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Many people are not interested in having implants, which I totally understand. One of the things I find interesting is that many patients will come in and they'll frame it. They're expecting that I'm going to try to talk them into implants. And so it's almost like they're kind of giving me a heads up, Hey, by the way, don't talk me into implants. And my response to that is, I have no interest in talking a patient into any surgery. First of all, when you come see me, my first role is to just listen and get the best sense of what your goals are, what bugs you and what are your goals down to the minutiae, what is your goal for a cleavage gap? What do you think of your natural breast footprint? And once I have that in my mind is then I shift into kind of teaching.

(15:56)
If somebody comes in and has very thin tissues, breasts that have a significant amount of sagging, and their goal is the most braless, perky, augmented look, well, I need to teach them how we actually achieve that look and what's required to make that look. And so yeah, phase two ends up just being, Hey, I'm just here to teach you. I'm not here to talk you into anything. I'm here to make sure that you understand the pathway that leads to your goals. And then I examine them and then the answer questions and the consult is over. But yeah, people are trying to avoid implants at times.

Eva Sheie (16:35):
Do you think more so in Portland than other places, or would you guess that's everywhere?

Dr. Hayes (16:41):
It's hard to know. It's hard to step into other people's practices in other parts of the country. I don't necessarily think it's Portland specific. I think the things that are specific to the Northwest is when it comes to sizing, I would imagine that we use implants that are slightly smaller, slightly more natural look, and maybe that varies by region or by practice.

Eva Sheie (17:02):
I would love to see that data.

Dr. Hayes (17:04):
I wonder if it's out there.

Eva Sheie (17:06):
I know in New York, they do talk about this a lot in New York City that they just use tiny implants all the time.

Dr. Hayes (17:13):
I mean, tiny implants of all different sizes can be just beautiful. I mean, tiny implants can do such a nice job of filling the top of the breast, filling the cleavage line. You can also add fat grafting to the cleavage to add a little additional volume there, narrow and sculpt the cleavage lines. And so yeah, I think implants of all different sizes can be just beautiful. I think another misconception that people might have, or maybe it's not a misconception, but it's the idea that the plastic surgeon will talked them into a larger implant size. And one of the things I tell people is implants are so customizable. There are so many options when it comes to how projecting the implant is, which refers to how much the implant sticks out from your body, how wide the implant is, how big the implant is. So as long as somebody feels comfortable with implants, we can dial in the exact look that they want because we just have so many options for sizing.

Eva Sheie (18:17):
Are you also seeing people come in and ask you to take their implants out?

Dr. Hayes (18:22):
But I wouldn't say that's a huge part of my practice. How many? I would say in a year I might have five to 10 people come and ask for that. I'm not sure if other plastic surgeons are seeing that more. I just don't tend to get that inquiry. Sometimes I'll have patients who maybe have had a breast augmentation, they might come in seeking a revision surgery, and just in our conversation, I'll remind them, Hey, one option is we could just take your implants out and be done. And some people will make that choice, but usually they're making that choice when they're a little bit later in life, sixties or seventies, typically.

Eva Sheie (19:02):
There's a couple different reasons, I think, and one is certainly we reach a certain age and we just don't want to be larger. And so anybody who had their implants 10, 15, 20 years ago when the style was kind of large, larger than it is now, maybe they just want them out because reasons, but then there's the other people who want them out because they believe that they're not healthy, and that's a completely different.

Dr. Hayes (19:34):
Yeah. Yeah. I was listening to Dr. Schaffner, your podcast with Dr. Schaffner, and you were talking about BII, and I'm really hoping that we can get an answer when it comes to the scientific aspects. So simply to help counsel people regarding risk, what the risk is, what the improvement is if implants come out. We do know that the risk is very, very low. My personal experience, I've probably done, I don't know, maybe more than 600 augmentations in my personal experiences. I had one patient who felt that they had BII, but thankfully the rest of my patients seem to be doing great.

Eva Sheie (20:13):
It's a polarizing topic nonetheless.

Dr. Hayes (20:15):
Definitely. It definitely is.

Eva Sheie (20:17):
Among patients and among surgeons. And I think one of the things I've learned just as an observer is you can find a group that will support anything that you believe. So if you believe they're making you sick, you can find a group that will agree with you. And if you think that they're not, you can find that group. That's right. And if you used to think they were making you sick and now you don't, you can find that group too. And so it just is sort of infinite. And I think the lesson usually, at least if you're a reasonable person, is you have to make your own decision with your doctor, and you have to find a doctor that's reasonable too.

Dr. Hayes (20:55):
Absolutely. Yep. I think that's true.

Eva Sheie (20:58):
Yeah, it's challenging and it'll be interesting over the next decade or so to see how that plays out. Right?

Dr. Hayes (21:05):
Yep.

Eva Sheie (21:06):
Is there anything you wish your patients knew before they came to see you?

Dr. Hayes (21:13):
Yeah, I mean, I think that really the main thing to know, ideally people just getting a sense of what you're looking for. And I would say that most patients do this. They come in, they're really educated. They've looked at a lot of before and after photos. That's usually how they found me, is kind of searching, looking at before and after photos, looking at results that they liked. Because usually once you know what you want again, then I switch into teacher role and I'll tell you how we can try to get there and what the best way to do that is. So I think looking at before and after photos, people don't really need to have a deep technical understanding. Many people dive deeply into research, and that's fantastic, but they don't need to feel obligated to do that. And then at our practice, and I haven't mentioned this yet, but I'm in group practice, so I have three surgeons that I work with.

(22:09)
Our goal is to make you feel comfortable. So when you come in, we want that experience to be as comfortable as kind of an inherently uncomfortable thing of taking your clothes off and being examined can be, but I think we really do a good job of making you feel comfortable through that process. And so the main thing for people to know about me is my goal is not, I'm not here selling surgery. I don't have any interest in that. People have looked at my results. My goal is teach you, educate, you make some recommendations. If you like to have surgery, that's great, but if I helped you decide that, Hey, maybe surgery is not for me, that's perfect too. So I think people should feel comfortable coming in and asking their questions and just having a nice experience where hopefully they learn a lot.

Eva Sheie (22:59):
Do you ask your patients to bring in photos and do you find it helpful when they do that?

Dr. Hayes (23:03):
Definitely. Yeah. I think the photos are really helpful and lots of people do. They have screenshots on their phone, and so yeah, people are always welcome to bring in photos. It just gives me a sense of just the general aesthetic of what we're trying to shoot for. And again, just helps me back in my teacher role of, Hey, I think we have a really good shot of reaching that, or maybe not so much, thankfully. Usually it's a go. But for some people, their goals may not be achievable, and that's really important to know that ahead of time. If they're going to embark on the journey.

Eva Sheie (23:40):
Do they bring in before and afters from all over the place or celebrity photos? What do you usually see?

Dr. Hayes (23:46):
So I'll typically see, usually not celebrity photos. I see a combination of before and after photos from either our website or other surgeon's websites. And then I might see an Instagram, something from Instagram that could be an influencer, that could be someone they know, and they're showing me a photo of, Hey, this person, this is my friend, and we have a similar physique, and her implants were this size and this is my commentary on that. And so yeah, usually it's Instagram or other doctor's websites.

Eva Sheie (24:23):
Well, one thing I know about you from getting to know you a little bit better over the last few months is that you like to go out into the wilderness and do challenging trips with your family. So do you want to tell us about that? The trip with the horses is what I'm thinking of in particular.

Dr. Hayes (24:40):
Oh yeah. Oregon is just such a varied state. We have kind of all these different landscapes. We have desert and mountains and forests and ocean. And in eastern Oregon, there's this cool lodge this way up in the mountains. And so I have a 10 year old and an eight year old boy, and my wife and I took them and we hiked in and it's eight and a half miles. And so we carried all of our stuff in and then stayed at this, I guess, lodge where there's these little cabins on the property and then they cook for you, and it's right on a river. It's just absolutely gorgeous. And then we horseback rode out, which I did not realize. Four hours on a horse is kind of uncomfortable, but it's just an absolutely fantastic experience. I think one of the things that I'm realizing is that although it seems like having your kids in your house for 18 years is a long time, it's not. And with a 10 year old and an eight year old, they're going to be out of here before I know it. And so part of how I want to spend my time as having these lifelong memories with them, once they're gone, the amount of time that you spend with them just goes down so significantly. So that is kind of my project for the next eight to 10 years.

Eva Sheie (26:09):
I approve.

Dr. Hayes (26:10):
Yeah.

Eva Sheie (26:12):
Why did they horse back you out when you walked in? Were they just figuring you were so tired that they were like, we're giving you a ride?

Dr. Hayes (26:20):
Great question. That would be funny. We don't think you can make it out. You're going to need horses. So the way in is mostly downhill. And so we knew that although the eight year old maybe typically couldn't hike eight and a half miles, that if most of it was downhill, we'd be good on the way in. But on the way out, all the uphill would just kind of not really work for those two. And so that's why we horseback rode out.

Eva Sheie (26:47):
Did your boys have big backpacks on, or did you just let them take it easy?

Dr. Hayes (26:51):
They had small backpacks on. So one of my friends is a big hiker, and he was telling me he's like, kids can carry 10% of their body weight. So there I am calculating how much they weigh and figuring out how heavy I can make their backpacks. They basically carried a small amount of their clothes in a water bottle. I think one pack was eight pounds and the other one was 15 pounds. Or actually, no, they were less than that. But still, yeah, small packs. I ended up carrying most of the heavy stuff.

Eva Sheie (27:24):
How was that?

Dr. Hayes (27:26):
It wasn't bad. Again, it was mostly, as you know, I'm a Peter Atita fan. For people who don't know Peter Attia, he's a medical doctor, really insightful guy, trying to maximize health and wellness and longevity and living a long life, but living a really healthy, ideally happy life. And one of the things he likes to do is ruck. And so what that is is carrying a backpack with weight in it. And so I do a lot of rucking, and so to carry a pack with weight was nothing new for me. If you see me on a weekend, I'll probably step out the house with earbuds in listening to a podcast, the dog strapped to my backpack and then rocking around the neighborhood for somewhere between one to two hours.

Eva Sheie (28:21):
I'm going to need photographic evidence of this.

Dr. Hayes (28:24):
<laugh> It's pretty hilarious because she's this very cute tiny labradoodle. And so I just have this very cute little dog. It's strapped in my backpack walking around, and usually I have my sunglasses and my hood up. And yeah, it's kind of a funny sight.

Eva Sheie (28:44):
So when I lived in Seattle, I learned this game called Homeless or Millionaire. And if you're out downtown or if you're in the airport, you sometimes have to look twice to figure out if somebody's a millionaire or homeless person. They can look the same. And what I'm thinking here is Peter Attia lives in Austin, and if he rucks, I'm going to have to look closer at the homeless guys on the street to make sure they're not Peter Attia.

Dr. Hayes (29:11):
Oh, you should. That's funny. So I've never heard of that game, although I do. There was a story, one of my plastic surgery mentors in Seattle, we were operating together, and he said, yeah, this weekend I was at one of my children's piano recitals, and I look over and I thought there was a homeless guy sitting there and in fact, insert world famous musician there watching his kid's piano recital. So it makes perfect sense.

Eva Sheie (29:45):
Yeah, it's real. Is there anything else you guys like to do away from work?

Dr. Hayes (29:53):
No, really just hang out. Since the pandemic, we kind of hang out with our family more, and that's something I need to do a little bit more is spend more time with my friends because I just don't see them as often. We're just a little more insular after the pandemic, just for whatever reason. We're just more used to it. And so an ideal night, it is kind of cooking with my wife, hanging out with my kids. We might watch a movie, but yeah, that's kind of what our weekends look like when we're not doing kids' sports and that sort of thing.

Eva Sheie (30:23):
Well, if someone's listening today and they want to come see you or they want to learn more about you, where would you suggest that they go online to look for that?

Dr. Hayes (30:31):
Yeah, so I think the best place would be my Instagram, which is D R and then Austin Hayes, A U S T I N, and then H A Y E S. That's a great place to start. They tend to post a lot of before and after photos there. Another place to check out would be Portland Plastic Surgery Group, which is our website. Then we always encourage people to check out those resources and then give us a call, and we're always happy to answer questions about what we do, and yeah.

Eva Sheie (31:05):
I have a really important question.

Dr. Hayes (31:07):
Oh yeah.

Eva Sheie (31:08):
If I come see you and I have to come downtown Portland, am I going to get attacked or accosted on the street?

Dr. Hayes (31:17):
So downtown Portland definitely has changed. Thankfully. It seems like it's coming back a little bit, meaning that this seems like it's getting better. One of the things we have is onsite parking. So although we are downtown and we're kind of at the edge of the Pearl District, which is a Portland downtown neighborhood, we have onsite parking, and so you just pull up park. Our building's really easy to access. Our office is large. It's really beautiful. It's in this old historic building exposed brick, which actually reminds me a ton of New York City, which I have such a fondness for. I just absolutely love New York. I enjoyed my time there so much, but really our building reminds me of that. We also have an onsite med spa, and then we have onsite operating rooms. So our office is the only place I go, and it's the only place my patients need to go because they have their surgery right across the hall in our surgery center. And yeah, downtown is very easy and convenient to get to us.

Eva Sheie (32:17):
Well, thank you for sharing yourself with us today. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Hayes (32:21):
Oh, I enjoyed it so much. Thank you, Eva.

Eva Sheie (32:27):
If you are considering making an appointment or are on your way to meet this doctor, be sure to let them know you heard them on the Meet the Doctor podcast. Check the show notes for links including the doctor's website and Instagram. Learn more. Are you a doctor or do you know a doctor who'd like to be on the Meet the Doctor podcast? Book your free recording session at Meet the Doctor podcast.com. Meet the Doctor is Made with Love in Austin, Texas and is a production of The Axis, t h e a x i s.io.