Eva Sheie (00:03):
The purpose of this podcast is simple. We want you to get to know your doctor before meeting them in person, because you're making a life-changing decision, and time is scarce. The more you can learn about who your doctor is before you meet them, the better that first meeting will be. There's no substitute for an in-person appointment, but we hope this comes close. I'm your host, Eva Sheie, and you're listening to Meet the Doctor. Welcome back to the podcast. You're listening to Meet the Doctor, and my guest today is plastic surgeon from New York City, Brian Forley. Welcome to the podcast. 

Dr. Forley (00:41):
Thank you for having me. 

Eva Sheie (00:43):
So why don't we just start with, uh, what would you tell someone in an elevator if they asked you? What do you do, <laugh>? 

Dr. Forley (00:51):
Well, professionally, I'm a plastic surgeon and I'm certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery. I've been in practice for the past 29 years on the Upper East side of Manhattan. And I specialize in aesthetic surgery, primarily of the face, eyes, nose, and also body contouring, breast surgery, both surgical and non-surgical, in terms of my approach towards treatments. On a personal level, I'm an adventure traveler. I have traveled to all seven continents multiple times actually. And most recently, I just got back from two weeks ago from a adventure in Nepal where I was up in the Himalayas and exploring the upper Mustang region where they have a very interesting festival called the Tiji Festival in Lo Monthong, which is the ancient Wall city capital of Upper Mustang. And so we were able to view this festival, which drives the demons and evil spirits out of the village and the town. And so also visited many of the interesting caves where they have Buddhist paintings from a thousand years ago and the incredible scenery and, and landscapes as part of the hiking, we were trekking up at 13,500 feet. So those are those, those are the two things I would probably share at first with someone in an elevator, as you asked. 

Eva Sheie (02:21):
The Tiji Festival. So did it work when they drove the, the demons and the spirits out? 

Dr. Forley (02:26):
Uh, absolutely. 

Eva Sheie (02:27):
There's a lot to unpack there, oddly, when you said you were an adventure traveler, that's the first thing that came into my head was I bet he's gonna say he went to Mount Everest and I was pretty close because isn't that also in the Himalayas? 

Dr. Forley (02:43):
It is. Yeah, it's in Nepal. I did climb Mount Kilimanjaro a couple of years back and uh, I've also gone to Antarctica three times. I went scuba diving in Antarctica four years ago. That was cold water diving. It's a specialized type of diving with a dry suit to protect you from the extreme cold temperature. And uh, it was something I trained to do. I went, actually before the current events of, of Russia, I went to Russia to the Arctic Dive Center in the White Sea for a week, and I did ice diving there and I've also went ice diving in Baffin Island in Canada. So these are things that I do that I enjoy in conjunction with my practice in terms of my life. 

Eva Sheie (03:29):
Are you also a pilot? 

Dr. Forley (03:30):
I'm not a pilot. 

Eva Sheie (03:31):
Okay. <laugh>. I talk to a lot of surgeons and there is sort of a theme that emerges over time and personality characteristics, which I suppose makes sense when you talk to people who do the same thing. And one of them is this sort of bold risk taking and you have to be of a certain mindset to do surgery in the first place. And so to me, these things start to look very related. 

Dr. Forley (04:00):
They are in a way, but I, I think I would add controlled risk. I think when we do surgery, we have a plan. As I evaluate each patient, we come up with ideas that would best achieve their desires in terms of their expectations and their goals. And in some cases, obviously every surgical endeavor has inherent risk, but we try to minimize those risks. And when I go on scuba diving and Antarctica, I also take all the measures to minimize the risk to myself on a personal level. And so yes, there's a parallel there in terms of, I would say controlled risks and managed risks. 

Eva Sheie (04:44):
What's the next adventure that you're gonna go on? 

Dr. Forley (04:47):
In August I'm going, uh, on a ship to explore Greenland, the west coast of Greenland, up to the Canadian Arctic and uh, into the northwest passage. So that's going to be another, I think, very interesting adventure. And part of my travels. I also have a very strong interest in photography, so I do a lot of, um, both wildlife photography of some of the different animals that I've encountered in Africa and on numerous trips there. And most recently in Uganda to see the mountain gorillas in the be windy impenetrable forest. And, uh, I'm looking at publishing actually a book with some of my portraits of the gorillas that I have. I've also been entranced with some of the tribal groups and different, uh, experiences that I've had in Ethiopia in the Omo River Valley. They have a number of very traditional tribal groups that are, are still somewhat untouched in terms of their, uh, exposure to the western world. 

(05:49)
And I have a number of portraits that I've taken. I actually set up a little with my guide. I had a private guide there, and we set up a, interestingly, a little photo studio, one of the huts where I brought this black background with me and we set it up in inside one of the, the villagers huts and, and the villagers were coming in and I had special lighting that I was able to capture fascinating, uh, expressions that were just natural for them. And, and it just was very, they were very powerful expressions from the youngest to the oldest subjects that I photographed. And, and, uh, you know, I try to, again, if we draw a parallel back to my, my surgical practice, I am also very focused on capturing high quality photographs of the before, whether it's face, eyes, nose or body. And then the after pictures so that patients can, and myself also in terms of evaluating their results, can appreciate the differences in, in a, in a very straightforward way. That's accurate in, in, uh, sometimes oftentimes patients and that's just, uh, human nature will blank out what they started with before the procedure, let's say. And they might not remember exactly where they were. And then when they, they see sometimes they'll say, oh, you know, that's a trick camera. I never looked like that <laugh>. Then when they see the befores and I say, well, now this is your picture, this was you. And then they, they say, wow, that's, that's some difference, but quite an improvement. 

Eva Sheie (07:18):
It's powerful. Does it ever come up with these tribal communities that you're an aesthetic surgeon? Do you ever have to explain that? 

Dr. Forley (07:28):
Interestingly, well, they, they have no clue to begin with about this kind of world that, that I inhabit professionally. Um, some do in the, in, maybe in the, in the cities, but not in the tribal areas. But then I, I've brought on my trips, photographs and, you know, with me, my, my phone of before and afters to show them, you know, this is what I do. And it's, it's amazing how fascinated they are because they, I think they think it's magic in a way, uh, or some sort of spirit that, that is changing these people into their new appearance. And so usually I get a big crowd that gathers around me and they start asking questions, you know, through the guide who interprets. And, uh, it is an interesting experience because they, they don't bring any previous context to it and they're just looking at it as purely as, uh, you know, something completely new to them. 

Eva Sheie (08:21):
When you do these adventure trips, are you traveling by yourself most of the time? 

Dr. Forley (08:26):
So it varies. This most recent trip to Nepal, logistically, it's, it's not something you can easily do on your own. I mean, the roads are very difficult to pass, and with the guides and just the whole setup of transportation there, as well as arrangements for visiting the different sites and the hills. And there were very remote Buddhist temples and monasteries. And so that's with, uh, a small group. It was 11 people that's arranged, uh, with a travel company that, that does these kind of trips. But then I found also, for example, in Ethiopia, Uganda and Madagascar, I actually searched online for local guides and small travel companies, and I in interacted with them via email and established a relationship online that then led me to trust them. And we set up very interesting and unusual itineraries that you're not gonna find with some of the more conventional travel companies. And a lot of times going to these places, it's very hard to find people that wanna do these kind of things. So oftentimes I'm, I'm going on my own, but with the guides with me and it's generally been a great experience all around. 

Eva Sheie (09:40):
You have a lot of experience doing these kinds of, of travels now. Were there any mistakes that you made that you really learned from and, you know, learned not to do <laugh> on subsequent trips? Can you think of anything? 

Dr. Forley (09:55):
Well, I think other than, because I, I'm very, you know, again, careful with planning, I wouldn't say there, there were planning mistakes. I think sometimes logistically there, you know, basically with, with flights and transportation and things that cause delays, I think building maybe a little more time into some of the journeys to allow for those delays, you know, so there's less of a stress factor. But I think spending also more time, I think with some of the, in some of the villages where I, where I was, I think would also be something I would wanna do going forward when I planned future trips, uh, allowing more time and, and trying to even get a greater in depth experience in some of them. So I think, you know, that's, that's just something that, that you kind of, um, feel just from, I guess a, a successful trip because you want to do more of it. 

(10:52)
And then I, I've also just to try to tie the two maybe together a little bit in terms of practice and travel, but when I finished my, uh, formal training, I did a fellowship in craniofacial surgery in London, uh, the great Ormond Street, the Children's Hospital, and was treating birth deformities in children with especially cleft lips and palates. I've gone overseas four different volunteer trips, uh, twice to Peru, to, uh, Micronesia, to Palau. And I, uh, worked on primarily children with different birth deformities that don't have access to some of the medical treatments that would benefit them, especially surgical. And so we operated on both actually children and adults. Some of the adults have untreated birth deformities, congenital deformities. We had a 35 year old in Peru who had had a cleft lip, had never been treated, and he basically was a shut-in. He never left his home, he never worked. 

(11:53)
And once we fixed his lip, he couldn't stop smiling and we, we, we left and he was there to to, to send us off with a big smile cuz he was just, his life was changed. And uh, so that's very gratifying. I had a three month old that I did his, uh, cleft lip on and had the good opportunity to see him a year later when I went back for another trip. And, uh, he was just, you know, remarkably transformed and his father, when I, we first did the surgery, said to me, my son will never forget you. And that I know always, I always remember that. And uh, so I find that in conjunction with, you know, traveling to these exotic places to try to help people that need help. And also part of the trips were involving, um, training some of the local surgeons so that they were able to not do the advanced techniques, but able to also carry on some of the surgical benefits that we were trying to offer to the patients when we were gone. Cuz we were obviously there for a limited period and then they're, they're there ongoing. So that also as part of the, part of the mission.

Eva Sheie (13:07):
Is this all through an organization or something? 

Dr. Forley (13:10):
Yes, there were two organizations that sponsored these. One was, uh, actually out of Stanford at the time called Interplast. And then the Reconstructive Surgery Foundation, which was founded by two other surgeons in my training program, plastic surgery out in San Francisco. 

Eva Sheie (13:29):
So they organized trips and 

Dr. Forley (13:31):
Yes, so they, not just to the where I went, but multiple countries especially Interplast was doing multiple countries, uh, both in Asia and South Central America, South America and volunteer missions. There are other organizations that are doing this also, but these were the ones that were focused on the, the plastic surgery aspects. Um, 

Eva Sheie (13:54):
Now you said Palau, you've actually been to Palau. I've heard that's very hard to get to. 

Dr. Forley (14:00):
It is <laugh> and it's, it's actually beautiful spot in the South Pacific and we, I actually was le the leader of that trip. So we bring a nurse, anesthesiologist and a support crew. We also bring our own equipment supplies and we, we come in and so we're, you know, we, we as best as we can try to maintain the high standards that we're accustomed to here. And they had a facility there which we were able to, uh, utilize for the two weeks we were there. The first day is, is generally a kind of a triage day where we're assessing those who need help and trying to deal with the ones who are most in need first and then do as much as we can. Uh, they generally will announce or upcoming like on the local radio stations. And so there's usually a, a big group that is present and then there's some local contacts they have that help to organize the logistics of, you know, the, the beginning days. And then we set up our schedule for the, you know, nonstop surgery over the coming couple weeks that we're there. 

Eva Sheie (15:05):
And how many people are you able to help in two weeks? 

Dr. Forley (15:08):
Well, each trip was different, but I'd say we have myself and then another surgeon and so we're some of the, well there's bigger procedures, smaller procedures, but I'd say we, we probably handle about a hundred people more or less over that time. 

Eva Sheie (15:25):
It's remarkable. How does this work and the, this travel and this part of your non-work life influence the way that you see your patients in your regular everyday practice? 

Dr. Forley (15:38):
Well, I think that it, it gives me a, uh, broad perspective, not only on their physical issues in terms of appearances, but also I try to incorporate their personal aspects that they bring to it. Whether it's their concerns with aging or with just emotional aspects of life. And I think I, it broadens me as a human being. And I think when you're a surgeon has a broader outlook on life and isn't just completely tunnel visioned into the office every day. I think it helps both develop a rapport that I have with my patients and they just keep coming back. Now that I've been in practice for many years, you know, I've seen patients, some of them from two decades ago that come back for other things as they age. And then, uh, I have patients who've moved out of the state, California, for example, one that I'm thinking of. 

(16:37)
And she still comes back just because she trusts me. And so I, I I think it, it gives me a greater kind of context in, in which I, I treat patients and also humanizes me. And patients love to hear about my trips. And I have very extensive photo albums of all the different journeys in my office. And I actually post on Instagram, I have over 1500 travel photos. They say, how come you don't post your practice photos? I say, well, because I think people come to me in my office, we can talk about that. But if they want to see all the things that I do outside of the office, I have that on Instagram. Although I have given in and Im, I'm gonna post some of my practice photos on a separate Instagram site. But for right now, if you go to at Dr. Forley, you'll only see my travel photos. <laugh>, 

Eva Sheie (17:27):
I can't wait to look. I'll make sure that I link that in the show notes so anyone who's listening can go see them easily. Did you grow up here in New York? 

Dr. Forley (17:36):
I did, yes. I was born in Manhattan, uh, and I grew up on Long Island. And interestingly, just a little side note, I was born at Doctor's Hospital, which was on upper side. And when I went into practice, I was on staff at that same hospital where I was born, although it had changed its name, it became, uh, Beth Israel North. It's now actually closed and they've, they tore it down and turned it into condos, that area. 

Eva Sheie (18:06):
I was gonna guess, what did they turn it into? 

Dr. Forley (18:09):
Yeah, but it was kind of funny that I was born there and then I started, when I started my practice, I was, uh, affiliated there too. 

Eva Sheie (18:16):
Don't like to go far from home. Well maybe that's why you like to go so far from home now is didn't in the beginning. 

Dr. Forley (18:23):
Well, yeah, but I mean I, you know, left home for college, for training for different things. 

Eva Sheie (18:28):
So tell us about that. Where did you go to college and then medical school? 

Dr. Forley (18:32):
So undergraduate, I went to Brown University and I, my major was biomedical ethics, which was interesting in the sense that, you know, Brown is a very progressive school and they had at the time the so-called new curriculum, which they still have, although it's not so new anymore. But they incorporated with a major that I had both the sciences and also philosophy, religious studies, political science, economics plus biology, and different specialized seminars which looked at the ethical aspects that go into many of the decisions and that are involved in healthcare medicine and in life in general. And so I found that was a great foundation actually for moving on to medical school, which I did at Mount Sinai here in New York. And then I, before plastic surgery, we do general surgery and I did that at NYU in Mount Sinai. And then I went out to San Francisco to do my plastic surgery training before doing a fellowship after I finished that training in Southern California with Dr. 

(19:39)
Bruce Cannell, who was a very eminent plastic surgeon and one of the pioneers in facelift surgery. And then as I mentioned earlier, I went off to London to do c craniofacial surgery for six months, operate on kids with birth deformities and had a great good fortune to spend a day in surgery with a visiting professor, Dr. Paul Tessier, who was French, found, basically the father of craniofacial surgery. And he was visiting us and we did a 14 hour case. He left the operating room once for five minutes to use the restroom and he was there the whole time. And he was there the following morning before I got there to see the patient change the dressing. Just a remarkable person. He was, I think 75 at the time, 74, 75. So that was very memorable, inspirational, really. And then I came back and I decided to start my practice here in Manhattan on my own solo practice all these years. 

Eva Sheie (20:41):
It wasn't common to do that 29 years ago.

Dr. Forley (20:44):
It wasn't, but it, now it's even less common. But it was something I had always wanted to do and I felt that it would give me the independence to do the things I wanted to do from a practice point of view, as well as being able to do the traveling that I enjoyed so much without having to deal with a group practice or issues that might impact in my ability to, to do both in the way I preferred and also, um, you know, allowed me to, to really develop the practice that I wanted to. 

Eva Sheie (21:21):
Tell me about your family. 

Dr. Forley (21:23):
So my parents are alive and well. Uh, my father's 95, my mother's 94, they live on Long Island and we will be celebrating their 70th wedding anniversary in July. So it's very, very special to have them around and doing quite well. They're living on their own in their home and I'm gonna be seeing them tomorrow. I have a, a brother who's an architect and he teaches architecture. And my sister is a chef. She had a, uh, restaurant here in Manhattan for about 10 or 12 years, Verbena down on Irving Place, which got many accolades. And now she's has a, a baking company, Flourish Baking Company up in Scarsdale where she lives with my niece and nephew. My, uh, niece is finishing, well, she'll be a senior up at Hamilton College upstate and my nephew is graduating from high school and going on to an engineering program at Union College. And so we're all very proud of of them. 

Eva Sheie (22:32):
Has anyone ever traveled with you on your adventures? 

Dr. Forley (22:36):
From my family? No. No, 

Eva Sheie (22:39):
You're on your own.

Dr. Forley (22:39):
I'm, I'm, they're, they, they enjoy hearing about them, but they, they haven't, uh, joined me. No. 

Eva Sheie (22:46):
How do you suppose you got this adventurous spirit? 

Dr. Forley (22:49):
So my, uh, parents took us when we were children, took us traveling mostly to Europe, but we did do actually a trip to Asia and went to South America as we were growing up, I never, as most of my friends went to sleep away camp or things of that sort. I never did. We would travel, we would spend, you know, three, four weeks sometimes in the summers traveling. And I think that inspired me and or was the seed of where my later interests came from. And then, um, I also had an uncle, my mother's brother, who was a big traveler and I used to love hearing about his trips. I he did, he wasn't going up to the Tiji Festival in Nepal, but he was traveling all over the world. And I, I think also my just, I have an innate curiosity and, and I just also enjoy challenges and also experiencing new things and you know, I I sometimes tell people when I travel, I can almost remember each day as a distinct day, what I did and how it differed from the following day in, in everyday life. 

(23:56)
Sometimes it's hard to remember like what one day, how it differs from the next, cuz it's, it's not a constant barage of new experiences. It's, it's good experiences perhaps, but it's not so different on a day-to-day basis like it can be when you're traveling. I, I just find that to be very exhilarating, to be able to have different experience sometimes not knowing what the day will bring. I mean usually I have a pretty good idea of what's gonna happen next week here in my office, but sometimes I get surprised. But usually I have a pretty good plan where in your travel you have a plan, but there's always things and you know, you're going somewhere. I mean the, just going back to this festival, I mean, I didn't really know exactly what to expect and it was just, uh, you know, very enchanting to see all of the involvement of the, the Buddhist and the local people and interacting with them. And I, I actually got to meet the king. He's not in power now, but he's the royal lineage cuz this was a kingdom of Mustang and so he was at our hotel. And so I have a photo of myself with the king. I call it The King and I.

Eva Sheie (25:01):
<laugh>. Is it in your office? 

Dr. Forley (25:03):
Uh, not yet, but it will be. 

Eva Sheie (25:04):
It's on Instagram. 

Dr. Forley (25:05):
It's in my phone right now. 

Eva Sheie (25:07):
Okay. 

Dr. Forley (25:07):
But I'm going to post it 

Eva Sheie (25:08):
Oh this was recent? 

Dr. Forley (25:08):
I'm gonna be posting. Yeah, this was just two weeks ago. 

Eva Sheie (25:11):
Oh boy. I think you just nailed the, the why around why you travel is that it's a different day every day. It is memorable. 

Dr. Forley (25:22):
Yeah, no, I, I mean when I climb Kilimanjaro I can, I can remember each day distinctly I know in my head. And then when I look at my photographs it even reinforces it. But I, I have a distinct recollection of every day and what I did and how it went and where we stayed and camped on the mountainside and all of that. 

Eva Sheie (25:43):
Incredible. Well there's a lot to you. <laugh> Before we wrap it up, I want to at least ask you if someone is interested in coming to see you, where should they find more information about you online? 

Dr. Forley (26:00):
Well, I would say encourage them to start with my website, dr forley.com because we've actually over the past several years, I am somewhat of a perfectionist and it took several years to actually finally launch our website after a long period of, uh, development. And I think it has very good both educational components to it in terms of the writing, which I all did myself. Uh, all of the text is all from me. And also examples of patient examples before and afters as well as some opportunities if they choose to visit. We have a, a component of, uh, imaging, 3D imaging that we offer in our practice. And they can actually, on the website, they can go to the link and they can, uh, in fact upload photos and we're able to do, if they choose to have an initial virtual console, we can discuss some of the aspects of what they might be, uh, interested in achieving. 

(27:08)
And I can simulate that because I find, uh, with that feature that we've added to the practice, 3D imaging, simulating, although it's not the same as obviously exactly comparable to what you can achieve, let's say surgically, but it gives them an idea from their own appearance and the changes I can produce on the imaging software, what they might be able to achieve and sometimes give them different options. And it's different than when they see a before and after on someone else, another patient because obviously that their starting point is different. And so they can say, oh, that's a great result, that's nice, but what about me? And so that option is available on the, on the website but also in the office when they come in. And then we have materials that they can, uh, that we provide to the patients as well. But I think the best starting point is, is really the website cuz we spent, I spent a lot of time developing it and I, and I think it's reflected in, in what patients have told me in terms of their experience with it. And then if they wanna know about my travel, they can go to the Instagram page again at Dr. Forley and see some of my adventures. 

Eva Sheie (28:19):
I'm going to do that right now. 

Dr. Forley (28:21):
Okay. 

Eva Sheie (28:22):
Thank you for sharing yourself with us today. 

Dr. Forley (28:24):
You're welcome. Thank you for having me. 

Eva Sheie (28:31):
If you are considering making an appointment or are on your way to meet this doctor, be sure to let them know you heard them on the Meet the Doctor podcast. Check the show notes for links including the doctor's website and Instagram to learn more. Are you a doctor or do you know a doctor who'd like to be on the Meet the Doctor podcast? Book your free recording session at Meet the Doctor podcast.com. Meet the Doctor is Made with Love in Austin, Texas and is a production of The Axis, t h e a x i s.io.